Are you salivating yet? You should be. I made this delicious cheesy goodness with two Pillsbury pizza crusts, one spread on the bottom and the other over the top, and in between all the cheese, spaghetti sauce and pepperoni we could handle. I thought we ought to have enough for everyone especially with three kids gone and Keith at work, but the kids were so excited about it that they invited three neighbors to join in! There was still enough!
Keri Lynn and Kristofer are still in Japan. They will be coming back late Saturday night. I go to the church website where there's a link to a Flikr photo gallery to check on the latest pictures. If you want to see what they're up to, go to http://fbcnewnan.org/ and right there on the home page on the left side there's a box that says Georgia Student Choir USA. The choir could not travel under a religious name, but the Lord has opened up opportunities for them to sing in public venues like parks and ticketed events. They are also going to be singing at a public school -- please pray that the opportunity continues to be opened as the Japanese are very concerned about swine flu and the kids have only been in the country for a week. Both Keri Lynn and Kristofer are also part of the smaller singing ensemble, so they've been exercising their voices a lot. They've also been exercising their legs. They've been doing a lot of walking to and from the train to all their various destinations. All of the kids are doing great, though. I think they are all taking in the experience!
Yesterday, I got a chance to chat with Keri Lynn on Facebook. Sometimes we chat when she's up in her room at her laptop and I'm in my room on my laptop -- I know, I know . . . sad! But this time she was all the way on the other side of the world and we were chatting on Facebook! No change in wait time or anything. It was great to hear from her and ask questions about their trip. She sounded really good.
After I got off of the computer, I was getting ready to get dressed for the day, when Jehovah's Witnesses came to the door. I decided years ago that if Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses came to the door, that I would do what I could to speak to them about Jesus. After all, I was home and people were willing to come to MY door to talk to me about faith issues. What could get better than that? So I invited the two ladies in, still in my pajamas and my hair a mess, but they said they had people waiting in the car and would I take some of their fine literature.
And this is how most of the conversation went at my door:
"You know, I don't agree with what you believe about Jesus."
"You don't? What don't you agree with?"
"Well, the main thing," and here I took a deep breath and dove into the heart of the issue, "is that you don't believe that Jesus is God."
"We believe he is the Son of God, that he saved us from our sins . . ."
"But you don't believe he's God."
"The Bible says that he's the Son of God, that God gave him the power to save us from sin, and that he now sits at the right hand of God the Father."
"The Bible also says that Jesus is God. In fact, Jesus Himself claims that He is God."
They had their Bibles handy with all of the verses talking about Jesus being the Son of God, the first creation, that he asked God permission, etc, etc. Most of the verses were in their own translation, though, where a few key words could be changed for their benefit. And I countered with the time that Jesus claimed to be I AM (John 7). (There are plenty of other times that he claims to be God, but that's the one that stuck in my head as the most prominent.)
"I really don't see how you can get around that. Jesus said I AM. He was crucified for that. The Jews were so angry at him because He claimed to be GOD!"
They threw some more scripture at me that they thought supported their point, but for that one argument, there was no answer. Jesus said it. There is no denying it. He died for it. He conquered sin for it. He rose from the dead for it. Is it not an AMAZING thing, that the Christian faith is the only faith in the entire world wherein GOD Himself sacrificed Himself for us? All other religions have US doing the sacrificing for god. Even Jehovah's Witnesses. Especially Jehovah's Witnesses. They are constantly working toward perfection, constantly trying to be good enough to eventually get to heaven.
It is my belief that talking with people involved in these false religions like Mormonism and Watch Tower is very easy. It always comes down to Jesus and who He claims to be. You either believe it or you don't. It still doesn't change who HE is, though. And it is a privilege to be able to speak of Him to those who are seeking.
The ladies at my door finally had to leave but not without asking if we could have a Bible study together later. Perfect! I thought. I gave them my name and phone number and said I could meet with them any time. I'm sure they have their own Bible studies ready to go, but so do I! After all, if we're studying the Bible, Ive got the HUGHEST advantage EVER. That's why it's important for us as Christians to be studying and learning what the Bible says so that we can be ready to have an answer. It's all there in that Book.
69 comments:
That is super! I used to witness to a Mormon friend, but God revealed scales over her eyes to me, and it just broke my heart that she was unable to see the truth because of the curses prayed over her for generations.
There is a lot of deceit out there, isn't there, Lisa. But somewhere along the line, the Holy Spirit can open someone's eyes.
Yes, Jackie, I agree. There is no curse but that of the sin we all share. God is mighty to save.
AS for that pizza thinggie. OOh looks both scrumptious and scary. Hope there were no stomach aches.
There are many gods and many lords 1Cor 8:5
Jesus is 'Mighty God' Isa 9:6
Jehovah is 'God Almighty' Ex 6:3
Satan is 'god of this world' 2 Cor 4:4
Jesus argued that men are gods John 10:34
Matt 27:46 Jesus cried 'My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?
Who is Jesus' God?
HalleluJAH Praise JAH Praise JehovAH Rev 19:1-6
Cheers
Gray
Graham Mewburn
Cundletown
Australia
I'm confused as to your comment, Gray. Would you mind clarifying? I'd love to have a dialogue.
All those verses strung together seem to imply that there are many gods and that Jesus and Jehovah are just a few of them. However, the Bible is very clear on this matter. "Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one!" (Deut. 6:5) In the New Testament, when Jesus says that "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30), he explains his relationship as God Incarnate. We see Jesus once again in the times yet to come, when He returns to earth as "King of kings and Lord of lords." (Rev. 19:16)
I think the verses above and the whole scripture clearly show Jesus as God, part of the triune nature of GOD. He has no god because He is God.
Hello Jackie
all scripture is inspired of God
Deut 6:4 'Hear O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah' Young’s Literal Translation
Also:-American Standard Version, Bible in Living English by Steven T. Byington, Holy Scriptures by J. N. Darby 1882, Emphasized Bible by J. B. Rotherham 1878, Literal Translation by Jay P. Green 1987
'Here is a name given to the Creator, "Jehovah." Where the word "LORD" is printed in capital letters in our English Bibles, in the original it is "Jehovah." 'Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary' on Gen 2:4, the first occurence of Jehovah's name.
Christian Love Gray
Hello Jackie
all scripture is inspired of God
Deut 6:4 'Hear O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah' Young’s Literal Translation
Also:-American Standard Version, Bible in Living English by Steven T. Byington, Holy Scriptures by J. N. Darby 1882, Emphasized Bible by J. B. Rotherham 1878, Literal Translation by Jay P. Green 1987
'Here is a name given to the Creator, "Jehovah." Where the word "LORD" is printed in capital letters in our English Bibles, in the original it is "Jehovah." 'Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary' on Gen 2:4, the first occurence of Jehovah's name.
Christian Love Gray
Matt 27:46 Jesus cried 'My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?
John 20:17 After his resurrection he said 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'
The Holy Spirit inspired the following:
2 Cor 11:31 'The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ'
Eph 1:3 'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ'
Eph 1:17 'That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ,'
1 Pet 1:3 'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ'
The Holy Spirit, the Apostle Paul and the Apostle Peter agree and confirm that Jesus has a God.
Rev 3:12 Jesus says 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.'
Whose name does Jesus write on he who overcomes? Who is Jesus' God?
Do you believe these scriptures Jackie?
I do
HalleluJAH Praise JAH
on three occasion Jesus uses the expresion 'My God'.
Was He Lying?
Philippians 2:8 'he was obedient to death'
to whom was Jesus obedient?
who does Mighty God Jesus obey? Isa 9:6
1 Cor 11:3 'God is the head of Christ'
Warm Christian Love
HalleluJAH Praise JAH Praise JehovAH Almighty God Rev 19:1-6
Gray
Oh, thank you for replying! I was pleased to see your comments. There is nearly nothing I love better than to debate God's word!
I agree with your comments on the texts regarding "Jehovah". It is God's name. The name that God gives the Israelites. He is Elohim, the Creator. El Elyon, the Most High. El Roi, the God who sees. El Shaddai, the All Sufficient One. Adonai, Master. Jehovah, the Self-Existent One ("I AM WHO I AM". Jehovah-jirah, The Lord will provide. Jehovah-rapha, the Lord Who Heals. And so many, many other names for GOD. So beautiful!
However, the problem I have with your interpretation of Scripture is in the New Testament as it pertains to Jesus. There is a serious disconnect as to the nature of Jehovah. The verses you use to prove that Jesus is only the Son of God and not God do not do that at all. They only emphasize his Incarnate nature while He was on earth. He was subject to his earthly body and to the Law and therefore subject to God the Father. That did not take away His deity, but put Him in submission to the Father in Heaven. In Revelation, we see a clear picture of His deity as "King of kings and Lord of lords." Now that would seem to imply that Jesus is subject to no one else. HE IS GOD.
But to understand who Jesus is in the New Testament, it's easiest to START in the Old Testament. And this is where I have a few questions for you. I need to get a clearer understanding of who you think God is in the Old Testament.
I'd like to start with the subject of Jehovah's presence among His people. Jehovah's glory that comes down to earth among men, particularly with the Israelites while they were in the wilderness. "Then they set out from Succoth and camped in Etham on the edge of the wilderness. And the LORD was going before them in a pillar of cloud by day to lead them on the way, and in a pillar of fire by night to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night. He did not take away the pillar of cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people. (Exodus 13:20-22)
Another example of God's presence among His people would be when the Israelites set up the tabernacle (per Jehovah's instructions)in the wilderness. "Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. And Moses was not able to enter the tent of meeting because the cloud had settled on it, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. And throughout all their journeys whenever the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the sons of Israel would set out; but if the cloud was not taken up, then they did not set out until the day when it was taken up. For throughout all their journeys, the cloud of the LORD was on the tabernacle by day, and there was fire in it by night, in the sight of all the house of srael." (Exodus 40:34-38) My question for you is simple. Is this Jehvoah's presence in the tabernacle?
Later, when Israel settles in the Promised Land, the tabernacle, as you know, is finally replaced with a temple built by Solomon. 2 Chronicles 7:1-5 describes how the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord. They bowed down and worshipped Jehovah. My question to you is this: Is this God's presence? Does Jehovah in His glory come down to His people?
There are many accounts of Jehovah's presence among His people. Are we in agreement that He dwelt among His people in the days of His people Israel?
2 Chronicles 7:1-5 says the glory of Jehovah fills the house of Jehovah.
John 2:16 When Jesus was in Jehovah's temple He called it 'My Father's house'
John20:17 Jesus says to Mary 'I ascend to my Father and your father to my God and your God'
Who is Jesus Father?
Who is Jesus God?
christian Love
Gray
But, Gray, what about my question as it pertains to Jehovah in the Old Testament? Did He come down to be present with His people?
please note Jackie
I'm not debating God's Word
I'm listening to God's Word
are you?
When Jesus said to Mary 'I am going to My God'
was He telling the truth?
are you listening to Jesus?
or clever argument?
Christian Love
Gray
I believe what the Bible says
Rev 3:12 Jesus says 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.'
do you believe these words of Jesus?
Philippians 2:8 'he was obedient to death'
to whom was Jesus obedient?
1 Cor 8:6 We have one God, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost
Is that what it says in your Bible?
or
1 Cor 8:6 'We have one God the Father .... and one Lord Jesus Christ'
What does your Bible say?
Christian Love
Gray
are you listening to the Word of God or human reasoning?
please note I do not put forward arguments
only scripture
Gray
jackie asked
But, Gray, what about my question as it pertains to Jehovah in the Old Testament? Did He come down to be present with His people?
2 Chron 7:2 'and the priests could not enter into the house of Jehovah because the glory of Jehovah filled the house of Jehovah.'
that's what the Bible says, that is what I believe
1 Cor 11:3 'God is the head of Christ'
should I believe 1 Cor 11:3
Warm Christian Love
Gray
Jackie says
However, the problem I have with your interpretation of Scripture is in the New Testament as it pertains to Jesus. There is a serious disconnect as to the nature of Jehovah. The verses you use to prove that Jesus is only the Son of God and not God do not do that at all.
Where did I interpret the scriptures?
When did I say Jesus is only the son of God?
Jesus ia Mighty God Isa 9:6
When did I say Jesus is not God?
He is more than God, He is Mighty God.
Jehovah is God Almighty Rev 19:6 Ex 6:3
please don't twist my words
that brings you dishonour, Jackie
I believe the Bible to be Jehovah's Holy word, please stick to what it says
Warm Christian Love
Gray
Matt 16:16
I believe what Peter believes
Ps 110:1 "Jehovah says to my Lord, 'sit at my right hand' "
Who now sits at Jehovah's right hand?
Dearest Jackie
please listen to God's word
1 Cor 11:3 'God is the head of Christ'
Gray
may Jehovah open your eyes to what His word simply says
Gray
Good Evening Jackie
It's 10 pm in the evening on the East Coast of Australia. I've just returned from night school. At 60 I am learning to weld.
My interests are: Scripture, Singing, Sailing & Photography.
If you would like to see my photographs, go to:
http://www.redbubble.com/people/grahammewburn
They will give you an insight into the area I live in.
Warm Christian Love
Gray
Good Evening Jackie
It's 10 pm in the evening on the East Coast of Australia. I've just returned from night school. At 60 I am learning to weld.
My interests are: Scripture, Singing, Sailing & Photography.
If you would like to see my photographs, go to:
http://www.redbubble.com/people/grahammewburn
They will give you an insight into the area I live in.
Warm Christian Love
Gray
Sorry for the double-up
I have enormous problems signing in
Goodnight
Gray
Ah, going to Australia is my husband's dream vacation. We're hoping to go in the next few years for an anniversary!
Thank you for the time you've taken with me, Gray. I hope to establish more Scripture with you to prove my point of Jesus' deity. I am using the New American Standard version, so many of the verses that you have put up for me do not read the same as my Bible. This is a problem. Because if the Bible is truly inspired, as we both agree it is, then these contradictions are serious. However, let us try to get through the verses that I have and see if the New World Translation reads them differently or if you disagree at some point.
Also, you'll have to forgive me for not getting back to you quickly -- I get on the computer and suddenly I've got hungry kids banging at my door demanding to be fed! But I do regard this time as very important and I am privileged to share it with you.
I go to the time of Jeremiah and Ezekiel . . .
"And He stretched out the form of a hand and caught me by a lock of my head; and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the entrance of the north gate of the inner court, where the seat of the idol of jealousy, which provokes to jealousy, was located. And behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, like the appearance which I saw in the plain. Then He said to me, "Son of man, raise your eyes, now, toward the north, and behold, to the north of the altar gate was this idol of jealousy at the entrance. And He said to me, "Son of man, do you see what they are doing, the great abominations which the house of Israel are committing here, that I should be far from My sanctuary? But yet you will see still greater abominations." . . .And He said to me, "Do you see this, son of man? Is it too light a thing for the house of Judah to commit the abominations which they have committed here, that they have filled the land with violence and provoked Me repeatedly? For behold, they are putting the twig to their nose. Therefore, I indeed shall deal in wrath. My eye will have no pity nor shall I spare; and though they cry in My ears with a loud voice, yet I shall not listen to them." (Ezekiel 8:3-6, 17-18)
Here we see Jehovah fed up with His people. Again and again they have turned to idolatry. Again and again, God has discplined them by giving them over to their enemies into slavery. Again and again they have called out to Him and He has delivered them. And again and again, they have fallen away from Him. The disobedience has become too great . . .
By the way, the order of these verses and a lot of the commentary is from the book "Lord, I Want to Know You" by Kay Arthur. I love the way she is able to present these verses in such a beautiful and easy to understand way.
Ezekiel 10:3-4
(Here the Lord was standing over the threshold of His house.)
Now the cherubim were standing on the right side of the temple when the man entered, and the cloud filled the inner court. Then the glory of the LORD went up from the cherub to the threshold of the temple, and the temple was filled with the cloud, and the court was filled with the brightness of the glory of the LORD.
Ezekiel 10:18
(Then He moved and stood over the cherubim.)
Then the glory of the LORD departed from the threshold of the temple and stood over the cherubim.
Ezekiel 10:19
(next He was at the door of the east gate.)
When the cherubim departed, they lifted their wings and rose up from the earth in my sight with the wheels beside them; and they stood still at the entrance of the east gate of the LORDS's house. And the glory of the God of Israel hovered over them.
Ezekiel 11:22-23
(Finally God paused on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem.)
Then the cherubim lifted up their wings with the wheels beside them, and the glory of the God of Israel hovered over them. And the glory of the LORD went up from the midst of the ciy, and stood over the mountain which is east of the city.
These series of verses show Jehovah leaving His temple, where His presence has been among His people. Can you sense His reluctance? Yet the sins of the people are too much. He does leave.
But Jehovah is a covenant-keeping God! He will not go back on His promises.
Ezekiel 11:16-19
Therefore say, "Thus says the Lord GOD, 'Though I had removed them far away among the nations, and though I have scattered them among the countries, yet I was a sanctuary for them a little while in the countries where they had gone.'" Therefore say, "Thus says the Lord GOD, "I shall gather you from the peoples and assemble you out of the countries among which you have been scattered, and I sahll give you the land of Israel.'" When they come there, they will remove all its detestable things and all its abominations from it. And I shall give them one heart, and shall put a new spirit within them. And I shall take the heart of stone out of their flesh and givre them a heart of flesh."
I have to go to VBS -- will come back and finish my thought and where I'm going with these verses.
Back from VBS ---
And I continue with Jehovah's words found in Zechariah 2:10-13
"'Sing for joy and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for behold I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,' declares the LORD, 'And many nations will join themselves to the LORD in that day and will become My people. Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me to you. And the LORD will possess Judah as His portion in the holy land, and will again choose Jerusalem. Be silent, all flesh, before the LORD; for He is aroused from His holy habitation.'"
And another prophecy concerning Jehovah's return to dwell among His people:
Malachi 3:1
"Behold, I am going to send My messenger ; and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming."
Ezekiel 39:25-29
Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, "Now I shall restore the fortunes of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I shall be jealous for My holy name. And they shall forget their disgrace and all their treachery which they perpetrated against Me, when they live securely on their own land with no one to make them afraid. When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them from the lands of their enemies, then I shall be sanctified through them in the sight of the many nations. Then they will know that I am the LORD their God because I made them go into exile among the nations, and then gathered them again to their own land; and I will leave none of them there any longer. And I will not hide My face from them any longer, for I shall have poured out My Sprit on the house of Israel," declares the Lord GOD.
All these verses clearly indicate that Jehovah would return to His people, to Jerusalem, to His temple once again. It also foreshadows something very special regarding "many nations" -- the Gentiles! But that is a separate dialog.
So we come to the coming of Jesus to earth.
John 1:1-5
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He wasw in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
I realize that your translation says "In the begining was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was a god." But I reject that translation, particularly because it does not match up with the verses that follow -- All things came into being through Him (the Word, Jesus), and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. This means that the Word, Jesus was there as God before anything at all was created. He is Creator. He is part of the triune nature of God.
And then there is my favorite scripture of the entire
Bible and one that so poetically flows from the earlier Old Testament verses that I quoted previously:
John 1:14
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:1-2 establish the Word as Creator and John 1:14 fulfills Jehovah's promise that He would come back to His people! Glory! Indwelling! Just as He promised!
Luke 2:28-32
He took Him into his arms, and blessed God, and said, "Now Lord, Thou dost let Thy bond-servant depart in peace, according to Thy word; for my eyesw have seen Thy salvation, which Thou hast prepared in the presence of all peoples, a LIGHT OF REVELATION TO THE GENTILES and the glory of Thy people Israel."
Again we have the reference to "glory" which always refers to Jehovah Himself in the Old Testament. No one else.
Jesus Himself claimed His deity many many times, but one in particular stands out to me.
John 8:53-59
Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?"
Jesus answered, "If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God'; and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word. Your father Abraham rejoice3d to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
So the Jews said to Him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.
Gray, why did the people throw stones at Jesus? They were so very angry at Him because He claimed to be God. I AM. Jehovah. How would they know Him in Old Testament times? What was His name? I AM WHO I AM. (Exodus 3:14) He did not say that He was merely God's Son, God's representative. He claimed to be God.
Which leads us to the whole crux of history. Jesus' sacrifice of Himself for our sins. How could He do this thing for us? No one in all history qualified for the job. Jesus, sinless, without blemish, offered Himself in our place to crush our sins so that we could stand before God in total freedom!
Just as Christ came to earth to dwell once more among men (John 1:14), now we can have God dwell in us.
I Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God is holy, and that is what you are.
Colossians 1:27
to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
There's the word "glory" again -- God's presence.
When Christ returns again, His word through Ezekiel will be fulfilled:
Ezekiel 37:21-28
And say to them, "Thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king for all of them; and they will no longer be two nations, and they will no longer be divided into two kingdoms. And they will no longer defile themselves with their idols, or with their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. And they will be My people, and I will be their God. And My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd; and they will walk in My ordinances, and keep My statues, and observe them. And they shall live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant, in which your fathers lived, and they will live on it, they, and their sons, and their sons' sons, forever; and David My servant shall be their prince forever. And I will make a coventant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting coventant with them. And I will place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever. My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be my people. And the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctified Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forever.'"
The above text goes very well with the following text and really wipes out any notion of the Prince, the Davidic Messiah, Jesus being anyone other than God. Read it as it relates to the text from Ezekiel:
Revelation 21:1-5
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He shall dwell among them, and they sahll be His people, and God Himself shall be among them, and He shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall no longer be any death; there shall no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed awy." And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."
I have read your articles. Not one scripture says God is a trinity.
Not one describes Him as a trinity.
Your clever arguments remind of a time when men believd the earth was the centre of the universe. If a camera is put on a tripod and the lense opened for an hour or two you can see the stars moving around the earth, of course the earth is at the centre. Many clever arguments were presented by very learned men to validate the fact that the earth is the centre of everything. That's how God made everything taught the church and to say otherwise was heresy.
John 15:15 Jesus said to His disciples that he had told them everything that the the Father had told him. WHY DIDN'T JESUS TELL US ABOUT THE TRINITY?
If what you claim is true I'd better cut 1 Cor 11:3 from my Bible. It is obviously untrue.
I do believe in the deity of Christ.
Isa9:6 Jesus is Mighty God
Ex 6:3 Jehovah is God Almighty
2 Cor 4:4 Satan is god of this world.
The Bible gives both Jesus and Satan the title god. It likens them both with the Lion.
Does that make them the same person.
David is king
Solomon is King
They are both father (to their kids.)
they both sit on Jehovah's throne.
Are they the same person.
And neither are Jehovah and Jesus the same person.
Nor are they existing in a Godhead.
God is the head of Christ 1 Cor 11:3
'Here is a name given to the Creator, "Jehovah." Where the word "LORD" is printed in capital letters in our English Bibles, in the original it is "Jehovah." 'Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary' on Gen 2:4, the first occurence of Jehovah's name.
Ps 110:1 "Jehovah says to my Lord, 'sit at my right hand' "
Who now sits at Jehovah's right hand?
First century Christians worshiped “God the Father” and had 'One Lord Jesus Christ' (1 Cor 8:6), see also Romans 1:7, Rom 15:6, 1Cor 1:3, Cor 15:24, 2 Cor 1:2, 2 Cor 1:3, 2 Cor 11:31, Gal 1:1, Gal 1:3, Gal 1:4, Eph 1:2, Eph 1:3, Eph 4:6, Eph 5:20, Eph 6:23, Phil 1:2, Phil 2:11, Phil 4:20, Col 1:2, Col 1:3, Col 3:17, 1 Thes 1:1, 1 Thes 1:3, 1 Thes 3:11, 1 Thes 3:13, 2 Thes 1:1, 2 Thes 2:16, 1 Tim 1:2, 2 Tim 1:2, Titus 1:4, Philm 1:3, James 1:27, James 3:9, 1 Pet 1:2, 1 Pet 1:3, 2 Pet 1:17, 2 John 1:3, Jude 1:1.
First century Christians imitated Jesus who has one God the Father. Jesus said; “I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
(John 20:17)
1. The Apostle Thomas called Jesus God.
John 20:27-29 “Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.” And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
2. The Apostle Peter called Jesus God.
2 Peter 1:1 “Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ”
3. The Apostle Paul called Jesus God.
Titus 2:12b-14 “...we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.”
4. The Apostle John called Jesus God.
John 1:1-3, 14 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” See verse 14 for confirmation that this reference to the "Word" is a reference to Jesus.
5. God the Father called Jesus God.
Hebrews 1:8 “But to the Son He [God the Father] says: ‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom. ’”
6. Isaiah the Prophet said the Messiah would be God.
Isaiah 9:6 “For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
God the Father, in the Old Testament, is also called “Mighty God” in Isaiah 10:21, the same title that can be ascribed to the Son of God, Jesus Christ.
7. The Jews who crucified Jesus understood Him to be saying that He was equal with God.
John 5:18 “Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.”
John 10:33 “The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
8. Jesus called Himself “I AM”, the Old Testament name for God (Exodus 3:14).
John 8:58-59 “Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.”
9. Jesus calls Himself “the Alpha and Omega,” the title of Almighty God.
Revelation 22:12-13 “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
10. Like God (Gen. 1:1) Jesus created.
Colossians 1:16-17 “For by Him [See context. This is speaking of Jesus] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.”
John 1:3 “All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.”
Yet God says in Isaiah 44:24, “I am the LORD, who makes all things, who stretches out the heavens all alone, who spreads abroad the earth by Myself”
11. Like God, Jesus forgives sin.
Mark 2:5-7, 10-11 says, “When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.” And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” “...But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”--He said to the paralytic, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go your way to your house.”
12. Like God, Jesus gives eternal life.
John 10:27-28 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.”
13. Like God, Jesus received, receives and will receive worship.
Matthew 14:32-33 “And when they got into the boat, the wind ceased. Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, “Truly You are the Son of God.” (also see Matthew 28:9, 17, John 9:37-38)
Revelation 5:13 “And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
Hebrews 1:6 “But when He again brings the firstborn [JESUS] into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
Jesus never rebuked any of His followers for worshiping Him and yet worship of anything or anyone other than God is absolutely forbidden in the Bible . . .
Luke 4:8 “And Jesus answered and said to him, “Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”
14. Jesus said that only God was good; and Jesus was good.
Mark 10:17-18 “And as He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and began asking Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.”
John 10:11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.”
Jesus was as good as they come. He was “sinless,” “holy,” “righteous,” “innocent,” “undefiled,” and “separate from sinners.” (Hebrews 7:26) That’s pretty good!
15. Like God, Jesus can be present in more than one place at the same time.
Matthew 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.” (See also Matthew 28:20)
16. One of Jesus’ titles is “God with us.”
Matthew 1:23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
17. Jesus’ blood is called God’s blood.
Acts 20:28 “Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.”
18. Jesus has the same nature as God.
Hebrews 1:3a “And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power.”
19. Jesus spoke as God.
Jesus did not speak as one of God’s prophets: “thus says the Lord,” but as God: “I say to you.”
Matthew 5:27-29 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”
John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
Matthew 7:28-29 “And so it was, when Jesus had ended these sayings, that the people were astonished at His teaching, for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.”
20. Like God (Psalm 136:3), Jesus is called the Lord of Lords and King of kings.
Revelation 17:14 “These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.” (See also 1 Timothy 6:15).
So what does deity mean to you, then? You say that you believe in Christ's deity just as you believe in Satan's deity. Perhaps we need to define deity.
There is a difference, wouldn't you say, between God and god. All through the Old Testament and into the New Testament, God is jealous for us. He wants us to worship Him and Him alone. That is the deity that I'm talking about. Deity -- GOD -- Jehovah. However, you are lumping Jesus in with all of the little "g" gods. But by the verses that you list, that would mean that Jehovah should be lumped into that list, too. It makes no sense to me. Either Christ is God Almighty or He is not. I believe He is God Almight. The Bible says that He is God Almighty. Do you believe this, too?
It all comes down to the reliability of our Bibles.
The NWT translates the Greek words "ego eimi" () as "I am" every time it appears (Jn 6:34, 6:41, 8:24, 13:19, 15:5, etc.), except in Jn 8:58 where it is translated as "I have been". What is the reason for the inconsistency in this translation? If "ego eimi" was translated in Jn 8:58 the same way it is translated in every other verse in which it appears, how would Jn 8:58 read? See Exo 3:14.
John 20:17
"I ascend unto ... my God," KJV
"I am returning to ... my God" NIV
"I am ascending to ... my God" NLT
"I ascend to ... My God" NAS
"I ascend unto ... my God" ASV
"I am ascending to ... My God" NKJ
"I am ascending to ... My God" AMP
"I am ascending to ... my God" NJB
"I ascend unto ... my God" YLT
Who is Jesus' God?
Warm Christian Love
Gray
Are you really listening to Jesus, Jackie?
"Anyone who proves victorious I will make into a pillar in the sanctuary of my God, and it will stay there forever; I will inscribe on it the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem, which is coming down from my God in heaven, and my own new name as well. Let anyone who can hear listen to what the Spirit is saying to the churches."
Revelation 3:12,13 New Jerusalem Bible
Are you listening?
Who is Jesus' God?
Warm Christian Love
Gray
How many more translations would you like me to quote?
I have not used the NWT in our conversations. About a decade ago I was given a copy of E-sword, which uses the KJV, for most of my bible study.
You make many wrong asumptions about me, Jackie. However, it's Jesus we should listen to. Please listen to him, Jackie.
Warm Christian Love
Gray
You are so correct that we should listen to Jesus! We can agree on that!
However, you'll have to explain to me what you believe then. I don't understand. You say that you believe in Jesus' deity. What does that mean? To me, it means that He is God. There is only ONE God, as we established very early in our conversation. Am I inferring something wrong in the scriptures that you have listed. Who, then, is Jesus to you. I don't want a list of more of the same scriptures. I just want to hear what you believe so that I can know what exactly we're discussing!
Can you understand why I would believe what I believe? There is God and then there is everything that He created. Two categories. What category is Jesus in?
hello Jackie
I hope you and your lovely family are well
regarding the word deity
I don't normally use this word.
thinking 'deity' and 'god' synonymous words I agreed that Jesus is a deity.
bible research shows
The words 'deity' and 'deities' do not occur anywhere in the King James Version of the Bible.
Acts 17: 16 "While Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was being provoked within him as he was observing the city full of idols."
Verse 18 "And also some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers were conversing with him. Some were saying, 'What did this idle babbler wish to say?' Others, 'He seems to be a proclaimer of strange deities,' because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection."
Verse 22 "So Paul stood in the midst and said, 'Men of Athens, I observe that you are religious in all respects.' "
New American Standard Bible
Compare:
Acts 17:16 "Now while Paul was awaiting them at Athens, his spirit was grieved and roused to anger as he saw that the city was full of idols."
Verse 18 "... some said, 'He seems to be an announcer of foreign deities'..."
Verse 22 "So Paul, standing in the center of the Areopagus [Mars Hill meeting place], said: Men of Athens, I perceive in every way [on every hand and with every turn I make] that you are most religious or very reverent to demons.' "
Amplified Bible
Warm Christian Love
Gray
your arguments are very clever.
I am 60 and I have searched the scriptures since my early teens for truth.
My life and the life of my wife Irene is on the line. I'm not out to win arguments.
Speaking about the religious leaders of His day Jesus quoted Isaiah at Matt 15:9 'But in vain they do worship me, teaching as doctrine the precepts of men.'
Am I listening to men or Jesus and His God.
Do you believe everything Jesus taught or do you prefer the teachings of men?
I fear for you and your husband and your children.
I believe you are in great spiritual danger.
Jesus said 'My Father is greater than I am'
I believe that.
Do you?
Or do you prefer the clever argument of men that negates His statement.
Jesus said 'I am going to My God'
I believe that
Do you?
A footstep follower of Christ believes everything that our Lord teachers and refutes teachings of men that conflict with the teachings of Christ
At Jesus' baptism a voice came out of heaven
'This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.'
Who said this?
Luke 1:35 The Angel Gabriel said to Mary 'The Holy spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the Holy Child shall be called the Son of God.'
Does this mean Jesus is the Son of the Most High?
Who is the Most High?
Ps 83:18
When standing in the Temple built to worship Jehovah, Jesus called it 'My Fathers house.'
Who resurrected the dead Jesus?
the idea that Jesus and Jehovah are the same is not possible
It is a teaching of men
Please stop listening to men
Listen only to Jesus and His God and Father Jehovah
Gray, thank you once again for this interaction. I appreciate your sincerity and your willingness to take time to talk with me.
What I don't understand is why you think my "clever arguments" don't come right from Scripture. They are not arguments of men, they are claims by Jesus Himself, promises by Jehovah Himself, promises in the Scripture itself. These are not my thoughts based on men's teaching. Like you, I've also been a student of Scripture since my teens. I love God's Word. From it, we are able to read God's will so that we can be obedient to Him. All we need to know is in Scripture.
In Matthew 15:9, as you say, Jesus rebukes the Pharisees and scribes for twisting scripture to suite their purposes. With authority, Jesus was able to rebuke them. Again and again, Jesus confronts the Pharisees and the Saduccees who are so anxious to discredit Him, but He does not back down. He gives them the truth of God's ultimate plan. Yet they refuse to believe.
Jesus flat out tells them that He is God, using the prophesy from Psalm 110.
He said to them, "Then how does David in the Spirit call Him 'Lord", saying, "The LORD said to my LORD, "Sit at My right hand, until I put Your enemies beneath Your"'? "if David then calls Him 'Lord', how is He his son?"
Matthew 22:43-45
Now here comes a very interesting reaction from the Pharisees in the next verse.
No one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day on to ask Him another question. Matthew 22:46
Why wouldn't they answer Him? What were they afraid of?
If they answered Him they would have to acknowledge that He was God. They refused to do that. What kind of audacity is that for Jesus who supposedly is not Jehovah God to make that kind of statement? The only answer is that He is God, The God, not a god.
I do not claim that Jesus and Jehovah are the same person. There is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Even though the word "trinity" does not appear in scripture, that does not mean that it does not exist. There are plenty of Scriptural morals that we follow that are not specifically labeled in Scripture such as abortion. Yet just because the Bible does not specifically say "Thou shalt not abort the unborn", we can categorically show through reasoning through Scripture that abortion is wrong.
The same is true for the triune nature of God. He is One yet He is made up of three persons. It is difficult for us to understand in our human state where we are defined by time and space. We have no real concept of eternity or spirit. Yet, God asks us to believe in Him and love and obey Him, the Alpha and Omega, the one who has never been created but has created all things. That's what makes Him God. Who was, Who is, Who is to come.
My belief in God's triune nature is fully supported through Scripture.
You had an interesting question -- Who resurrected the dead Jesus?
I will answer that and use the answer to show you the triune nature of God in action:
The answer to the question who resurrected Jesus is: God.
Acts 2:22-24
(Peter speaking) "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know -- this Man, delivered over by the pretermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power."
So then, the natural question, when discussing the trinity, would be which person of the trinity raised Jesus? God the Father, God the Son or God the Holy Spirit? The Bible says "Yes" to this question. The trinity, because God is One, works intimately with each other. What one does, the other two do, too!
The Father:
Galations 1:1
Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead)
Do you believe Paul?
The Son:
John 10:17-18
(Jesus speaking) For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father."
Do you believe Jesus?
The Spirit:
Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Do you believe Paul?
You asked:
At Jesus' baptism a voice came out of heaven
'This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.'
Who said this?
Again, the triune nature of God is VERY evident. Again, Father, Son and Holy Spirt work together in this exciting moment of Jesus' baptism! The public ministry of Jesus is launched at this point.
The Father says, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."
Then, of course, Jesus, God the Son, is present at the baptism.
And then we see God the Spirit -- "He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him" Then we see the Spirit "impelling Him to go out into the wilderness" where Jesus is tempted by Satan for 40 days.
All three persons of the trinity working together.
Does this sound like man's argument to you? Am I listening to men again? It's right there in Scripture, again and again.
Gray, may I ask if you have a specific religious affiliation? I assumed early in our conversation that you were a Jehovah's Witness since my post was about two Jehovah Witnesses who came to my door.
Hello Jackie
I hope you are well
1 Corinthians 4:6 NIV Do not go beyond what is written
your comments on Ps 110:1 go way beyond what is written
Neither have correctly copied what is in your Bible
I understand as my name is Mewburn and even if I put it in front of someone in writing most still write Newburn
It is not LORD to my LORD
it is LORD to my Lord
'Here is a name given to the Creator, "Jehovah." Where the word "LORD" is printed in capital letters in our English Bibles, in the original it is "Jehovah." 'Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary' on Gen 2:4, the first occurence of Jehovah's name.
Ps110:1 Yahweh declared to my Lord, 'Take your seat at my right hand' New Jerusalem Bible
remember please thet Jesus was talking to jews who did not have an English Bible
Every ocurrence of LORD in CAPS in your Bible reads YHWH in a Hebrew Bible
who now sits at Yahweh's right hand?
Warm Christian Love
Gray
The same is true for the triune nature of God. He is One yet He is made up of three persons.
A quote from Jackie
Dearest Jackie
where is this in the Bible?
Your statement breaks God's command
1 Corinthians 4:6 NIV Do not go beyond what is written
Your statement is a fiction
I know of no scripture that says our Father is part of a trinity
I know of no scripture that describes a trinity not even of a false god
If you know one please share it
Warm Christian Love
Gray
Dearest Jackie
I recently found a beautiful documentary on utube
It has nothing to do with a our discussions
It's about our Home, planet Earth
The videography is beautiful
I confident that after you and your husband have watched it you will encourage your children to watch it
You will most likely recommend it to your friends and family
It is about 90 min duration
http://www.youtube.com/homeproject
cheers
Gray
Gray, I hope you haven't given up on me! We've had guests and then we were traveling, and now we're back, and in the midst of it all, I've been kind of nauseated and fatigued from pregnancy. So I write out all kinds of responses in my mind but not actually down in a comment!
So here goes a general answer to your responses and then a link that is really interesting. I'd like to know what you think.
Regarding the Trinity -- I don't know how you could possibly NOT see the Trinity in scripture. I gave you two examples straight from scripture you gave me to try to support your position. It's all through the Bible, and most obviously through the New Testament, when Jesus comes to earth. If there is no Trinity, how do you explain the various references to the Holy Spirit? Is He a part of Jehovah? God the Father in heaven, yet the Spirit down on earth indwelling the brand new Christians? How is that possible but that God has three parts?
And what of Jesus, constantly being submissive to God the Father? He calls Him "My God", He certainly does sit at the right hand of God, but by your own position you have proved that Jehovah is a spirit -- So, what right hand does Jesus sit at? Jehovah has no right hand, physcially speaking. It is a position of authority that Jesus Himself takes to sit at the right hand of God the Father. In fact, we see throughout the New Testament, and most specifically in Revelations, that Jesus not only sits at the right hand of God the Father, but then He dares to sit on the throne itself -- the seat of God Himself! Now that takes a little daring, don't you think, for a lesser God, or whoever you think Jesus is, to sit on the THRONE? How can that be?
Rev. 7:17
for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.
Rev. 17:14
"These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful."
Rev. 19:11-16
And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on him which no one knows except Himself. He is clothed with a robe dipped in Blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. And on His robe and on His thigh he has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."
Oh, and here's the link. It pertains to "the right hand of God"
http://www.letusreason.org/Onenes10.htm
Tell me what you think.
Hello Jackie
good to hear from you. It is wonderful to have loved ones visit. A trip some where can truly refresh us. Pregnancy has it's highs and lows and I wish you a healthy and happy time with it.
I suggested you and your hubby watch the movie "Home" on Utube. If you do I'm confident you will want your kids to view it too.
Are you and your hubby aware of the phrase 'Peak oil'? According to 'Peak oil' theory we are currently at the peak of global oil production. When it goes into decline it will create many problems. Please note this does not mean the world will run out of oil, rather for the first time since mankind switched to an oil based society, oil production will not keep up with our needs.
Modern agriculture is totally oil dependant. It is used for propogation, planting, harvesting and distribution. Also fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides come from oil and gas. So when oil production goes into decline, so too will food production. Less food wiil be produced and what is produced will be greatly damaged by an increase in pests, weeds and plant disease because the tools to control them will be diminished. Scientists are predicting the death of billions.
In Matthew 24 Jesus discusses the end of the world with His disciples. In verses 21 and 22 Jesus predicts a great tribulation such as the world has never known.
So our lives face a challenging time and I believe that worshiping the Father in truth is critical to our survival.
I will reply on trinity soon.
May Jehovah open our hearts to the truth od His word.
Warn Christian Love to you and your family
Gray
g.mewburn@bigpond.com
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